Why does he hate odin programming?

General
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I happened to watch Tsoding’s YouTube channel, and it seems he dislikes Odin?

Why do you hate it so much?
Is the C3 programming language really that good?

I’ve never used C3, so I don’t know what kind of language it is.
I prefer a language like Odin’s, though.

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He’s mostly just trolling. Its just that people suggest it too much to him. He always seem to do the opposite of what the people are doing/want. He speaks of annoying zig fans while he once wrote a game in zig. Just let the odin hype settle and then he’ll probably try odin.

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A lot of his “trying new language” content revolves around Raylib. I’d assume Odin would be bad for content since he wouldn’t even need to build bindings for it.

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The first time they asked him about Odin, he responded that gingerBill always responds to anything about Odin in an aggressive manner:

I’ve never seen gingerBill being aggressive so I think what he said is ridiculous.

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Bill does tend to be rather direct and concise. It can be hard to infer tone from text sometimes, and I could see this being interpreted as aggressive sometimes. I’ve never felt like that’s the intention, though.

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Bill also has a superiority complex issue or at least he comes off as having such when using written communication.

He also mentioned and I tend to agree with him that Odin does not really solve the problems that concern him.

If your a seasoned experienced programmer you have to admit that there is little benefit to odin other than convenience and really good built in RTTI / slices and a hella good default builtins. Seasoned programmers dont like the friction added to pointers the lack of compile time conditionals and kind of overly opinionated take on certain things. Which is good there should be languages and people Bill making those things into a reality because they serve a purpose. Odin still has a crutch in laack of support for IOS/ANDROID targets , bindings generators etc…

The real questions is WHY do YOU care if he does or does not use it. Not everyone has to use what you use so carry on and enjoy using Odin.

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Allow me to go full conspiracy brain on this before the thread gets inevitably nuked.

I think that Tsoding doesn’t want to try Odin because he’s on good terms with Jon. He’s been in beta for a long time and he’s been talking very highly of Jai and Jon. I recall him saying on stream that when Jai comes out it will revolutionize programming and that compile-time execution is the future. I remember him also comparing C3 capabilities of argument checking in print function at compile-time with those of Jai not too long ago.

It’s also known that Jon has been saying things on his stream pointing to him being upset about other languages stealing features from Jai and giving it as a reason for not wanting to develop the compiler on stream anymore, going so far as saying he needs to start suing people.

It’s also true that both Bill and Andrew Kelley used to watch Jon’s old videos/streams about Jai and that Odin has taken a lot of inspiration from Jai. Specifically, the syntax, using, implicit context system and the way generics work are pretty much the same between the two.

So, it wouldn’t surprise if Tsoding doesn’t want to try Odin because he doesn’t want to upset Jon and he doesn’t want to start drama by saying it explicitly.

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I like Odin. I like Tsoding. Seeing Tsoding use Odin would spark off some dopamine. That’s pretty much it.

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Stating the obvious and hoping to put this bike-shedding to an end:

  • He (Tsoding) is a streamer.
  • Any stream competes for viewer’s attention.
  • Any competition for attention inevitably resorts several primitive tricks. Cultivation of controversy is one of them. “Drama is good for views.”
  • This is still good for Odin - it helps raising awareness. Drama or not someone will take a look at Odin, and someone will start using it.
  • For those who didn’t get it - @gingerBill is not aggressive. There is a distinction between being assertive + concise and being aggressive. As a BDFL he should be assertive and to the point.
  • Perception of aggression comes from immaturity of the individual. A BDFL often has to say “no”. Inability to take assertive and concise “no” is a sign of mental immaturity. (try this mental experiment: imagine Bill saying “yes” to something in a short and assertive manner - no aggression will be perceived because “you got the toy you wanted”)
  • Therefore nobody really hates Odin and Bill is not evil/angry/agressive.
  • Some streamers are exploiting immature audience to create some drama to keep their audience attention on their stream.
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